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Author: Jay Baer
My recommendation: 3/5
Summary: Interesting book full of compelling reasons why modern marketing is about creating helpful content (“Youtility”) that leads to better brand loyalty. I probably read this book about 9 years too late since a lot of the marketing tactics in this book are very common in today’s age of marketing.
My Takeaways:
The measure of usefulness of an early customer conversation is whether it gives us concrete facts about our customers’ lives and world views.
The big mistake is almost always to mention your idea too soon rather than too late.
If you just avoid mentioning your idea, you automatically start asking better questions. Doing this is the easiest (and biggest) improvement you can make to your customer conversations.
The Mom Test: Talk about their life instead of your idea
Ask about specifics in the past instead of generics or opinions about the future Talk less and listen more
It’s called The Mom Test because it leads to questions that even your mom can’t lie to you about. When you do it right, they won’t even know you have an idea.
Rule of thumb: Opinions are worthless.
Rule of thumb: Anything involving the future is an over-optimistic lie.
Rule of thumb: People will lie to you if they think it’s what you want to hear.
The value comes from understanding why they want these features. You don’t want to just collect feature requests. You aren’t building the product by committee. But the motivations and constraints behind those requests are critical.
Rule of thumb: People know what their problems are, but they don’t know how to solve those problems.
Rule of thumb: You’re shooting blind until you understand their goals.
Rule of thumb: Some problems don’t actually matter.
Learn through their actions instead of their opinions.
Rule of thumb: Watching someone do a task will show you where the problems and inefficiencies really are, not where the customer thinks they are.
“What else have you tried?” Good question. What are they using now? How much does it cost and what do they love or hate about it?
Rule of thumb: If they haven’t looked for ways of solving it already, they’re not going to look for (or buy) yours.
Rule of thumb: People stop lying when you ask them for money.
Rule of thumb: While it’s rare for someone to tell you precisely what they’ll pay you, they’ll often show you what it’s worth to them.
Rule of thumb: People want to help you. Give them an excuse to do so.
You aren’t allowed to tell them what their problem is, and in return, they aren’t allowed to tell you what to build. They own the problem, you own the solution.
Avoiding bad data
There are three types of bad data: Compliments, Fluff (generics, hypotheticals, and the future) Ideas
With the exception of industry experts who have built very similar businesses, opinions are worthless. You want facts and commitments, not compliments.
Rule of thumb: Compliments are the fool’s gold of customer learning: shiny, distracting, and worthless.
Ask good questions that obey The Mom Test to anchor them back to specifics in the past. Ask when it last happened or for them to talk you through it. Ask how they solved it and what else they tried.
While using generics, people describe themselves as who they want to be, not who they actually are. You need to get specific to bring out the edge cases. Anchor them on the life they already lead and the actions they’re already taking.
Startups are about focusing and executing on a single, scalable idea rather than jumping on every good one which crosses your desk.
When you hear a request, it’s your job to understand the motivations which led to it.
Just like feature requests, any strong emotion is worth exploring.
Questions to dig into feature requests: “Why do you want that?” “What would that let you do?” “How are you coping without it?” “Do you think we should push back the launch to add that feature, or is it something we could add later?” “How would that fit into your day?”
Questions to dig into emotional signals: “Tell me more about that.” “That seems to really bug you—I bet there’s a story here.” “What makes it so awful?” “Why haven’t you been able to fix this already?” “You seem pretty excited about that—it’s a big deal?” “Why so happy?” “Go on.”
Rule of thumb: Ideas and feature requests should be understood, but not obeyed.
Rule of thumb: If you’ve mentioned your idea, people will try to protect your feelings.
Rule of thumb: Anyone will say your idea is great if you’re annoying enough about it.
Rule of thumb: The more you’re talking, the worse you’re doing.
3. Asking important questions
Every time you talk to someone, you should be asking at least one question which has the potential to destroy your currently imagined business.
Rule of thumb: You should be terrified of at least one of the questions you’re asking in every conversation.
You want the truth, not a gold star.
Rule of thumb: There’s more reliable information in a “meh” than a “Wow!” You can’t build a business on a lukewarm response.
Zooming in too quickly on a super-specific problem before you understand the rest of the customer’s life can irreparably confuse your learnings.
The premature zoom is a real problem because it leads to data which seems like validation, but is actually worthless. In other words, it’s a big source of false positives.
“Does-this-problem-matter” questions: “How seriously do you take your blog?” “Do you make money from it?” “Have you tried making more money from it?” “How much time do you spend on it each week?” “Do you have any major aspirations for your blog?” “Which tools and services do you use for it?” “What are you already doing to improve this?”
“What are the 3 big things you’re trying to fix or improve right now?”
Rule of thumb: Start broad and don’t zoom in until you’ve found a strong signal, both with your whole business and with every conversation.
Pre-plan the 3 most important things you want to learn from any given type of person (e.g. customers, investors, industry experts, key hires, etc).
Rule of thumb: You always need a list of your 3 big questions.
Keeping it casual
Rule of thumb: Learning about a customer and their problems works better as a quick and casual chat than a long, formal meeting.
Rule of thumb: If it feels like they’re doing you a favour by talking to you, it’s probably too formal.
Rule of thumb: Give as little information as possible about your idea while still nudging the discussion in a useful direction.
Commitment and advancement
By giving them a clear chance to either commit or reject it, you can get out of the friend-zone and identify the real leads.
Rule of thumb: “Customers” who keep being friendly but aren’t ever going to buy are a particularly dangerous source of mixed signals.
Every meeting either succeeds or fails. You’ve lost the meeting when you leave with a compliment or a stalling tactic.
Rule of thumb: If you don’t know what happens next after a product or sales meeting, the meeting was pointless.
Rule of thumb: The more they’re giving up, the more seriously you can take what they’re saying.
Rule of thumb: It’s not a real lead until you’ve given them a concrete chance to reject you.
Rule of thumb: In early stage sales, the real goal is learning. Revenue is a side-effect.
Finding conversations
Rule of thumb: If it’s not a formal meeting, you don’t need to make excuses about why you’re there or even mention that you’re starting a business. Just ask about their life.
Rule of thumb: If it’s a topic you both care about, find an excuse to talk about it. Your idea never needs to enter the equation and you’ll both enjoy the chat.
Rule of thumb: Kevin Bacon’s 7 degrees of separation applies to customer conversations. You can find anyone you need if you ask for it a couple times.
Framework for cold outreach to gather customer feedback: Vision / Framing / Weakness / Pedestal / Ask
Examples:
Hey Pete, I’m trying to make desk & office rental less of a pain for new businesses (vision). We’re just starting out and don’t have anything to sell, but want to make sure we’re building something that actually helps (framing). I’ve only ever come at it from the tenant’s side and I’m having a hard time understanding how it all works from the landlord’s perspective (weakness). You’ve been renting out desks for a while and could really help me cut through the fog (pedestal). Do you have time in the next couple weeks to meet up for a chat? (ask)
Hey Scott, I run a startup trying to make advertising more playful and ultimately effective (vision). We’re having a load of trouble figuring out how all the pieces of the industry fit together and where we can best fit into it (weakness). You know more about this industry than anyone and could really save us from a ton of mistakes (pedestal). We’re funded and have a couple products out already, but this is in no way a sales meeting–we’re just moving into a new area and could really use some of your expertise (framing). Can you spare a bit of time in the next week to help point us in the right direction over a coffee? (ask)
Hey Tim, thanks so much for taking the time. As I mentioned in the email, we’re trying to make it easier for universities to spin out student businesses (vision) and aren’t exactly sure how it all works yet (framing & weakness). Tom (authority) connected us because you have pretty unique insight into what’s going on behind the curtain and could really help us get pointed in the right direction (pedestal)… (introductions continue) I was looking at your spinout portfolio and it’s pretty impressive, especially company X. How did they get from your classroom to where they are now? (grab the reins and ask good questions)
Rule of thumb: Keep having conversations until you stop hearing new stuff.
Choosing your customers
Before we can serve everyone, we have to serve someone.
Rule of thumb: If you aren’t finding consistent problems and goals, you don’t have a specific enough customer segment.
Rule of thumb: Good customer segments are a who-where pair. If you don’t know where to go to find your customers, keep slicing your segment into smaller pieces until you do.
Running the process
Rule of thumb: If you don’t know what you’re trying to learn, you shouldn’t bother having the conversation.
Meetings go best when you’ve got two people at them. One person can focus on taking notes and the other can focus on talking.
Rule of thumb: Notes are useless if you don’t look at them.
Conclusion
The Mom Test: Talk about their life instead of your idea Ask about specifics in the past instead of generics or opinions about the future Talk less and listen more
Deflect compliments Anchor fluff Dig beneath opinions, ideas, requests, and emotions
Asking for and framing the meeting: Vision—half-sentence of how you’re making the world better Framing—where you’re at and what you’re looking for Weakness—where you’re stuck and how you can be helped Pedestal—show that they, in particular, can provide that help Ask—ask for help
The big prep question for each customer feedback session: “What do we want to learn from these guys?”
